He grew up with a different cultural and linguistic background. Maybe what was intuitive to him is not intuitive to us.

This is kind of an awkward example, but if I told you George Bush was a “frat boy,” you’d intuitively know that I meant more than just “He was in a fraternity.” There’s a whole cultural backdrop that you’d stick in automatically.

Maybe there was a backdrop Srila Prabhupada was assuming we’d stick in automatically- but we don’t.

Eric

As I understand it, Srila Prabhupada is a very special soul selected by Krishna and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to spread KC all around the world. There is no doubt that 99% of the time Krishna empowered him to present the knowledge and philosophy of Bhakti. At the same time, I feel that Srila Prabhupada had his own opinions on few things and presented it in his books. Remember everything Srila Prabhupada spoke have been recorded and available to general mass now. There are so many devotees who accept every single word that Prabhupada spoke as the absolute truth coming from Krishna itself. That’s why there are so many fights, quarrels happening all over the internet and real world.

I came to know about spiritual life only through Prabhupada’s ISKCON so I am eternally grateful to him for giving me Krishna and His devotees. But at the same time I also use my little intelligence and discriminative ability to understand things “as they are” :)

Hare Krishna.

Yes Papa yoni in contrast to the next verse
How much more this is so of the righteous brāhmaṇas, the devotees and the saintly kings. Therefore, having come to this temporary, miserable world, engage in loving service unto Me.

The word punya, pious, is only used in connection to the Brahmanas and Ksatriyas, where as the others are under the classification of papa yoni.

We’re all prakriti in relation to Krishna, but women are prakriti relative to man. We get different kinds of bodies according to past karma. I don’t see what’s the difficulty understanding this, which I presume to be a generalization, especially in Kali Yuga, when things get weird. I do have a problem with the notion that Srila Prabhupada was materially conditioned with inappropriate sexism, etc. That would paint him as irreligious, which is quite offensive. Hare Krishna.

This might interest you: link. It’s a little essay about how we shouldn’t judge other times and cultures by the standards of our own. It’s quite good.

Personally, I will be forever grateful to Srila Prabhupada. Coming to America at his age and in his health was nothing less than heroic. He demonstrated a tremendous faith in God and love for people.

But the bottom line is, he was human. Everything he knew, we can learn; everything he did, we can do; we can have a relationship with Krishna every bit as deep and fulfilling as the the one he had.

And that, I’m sure, is what he wants for us.

Brahman = mode of goodness
Ksatriya = mode of passion
Vaisya = mixed modes of passion and ignorance
Sudra = mode of ignorance

In the Krsna Book, Srila Prabhupada states that unless one comes to the Brahminical platform, he (she) can not become a pure devotee.

Instead of seeing things always on the material plane, try to see things on the self-realized plane. The purpose of Srila Prabhupada’s presentation was always to prepare devotees to be admitted into the spiritual world. Different rules and needs apply for someone seeking that goal.

If instead we want to remain in the material world, where we seek honor, prestige, judge each other by bodily types, seek profit, adoration, and distinction, then the statement that “women, vaisyas, and sudras” are of lower birth is sure to cause offence to these people.

There are very few true or qualified Brahmans or even Ksatriyas in this Age of Kali, existing on this planet right now. All of us, myself included, are of lower birth.

He often compared the hopelessness of spiritual progress by his disciples to “washing coal”. When a sudra chants Vedic mantras, there is practically no effect.

Sorry that you feel that what I am writing to you is just “pure bullshit.” I really put a lot of thought into what I said here, so it makes me feel really sad that in your eyes I am just writing only bullshit. I admire you, from our interactions at your Hing site, and I thought we were friends, but I guess I don’t really know you that well personally.

I can see though that you can’t stand Srila Prabhupada. That’s ok. Find someone you do like, can listen to, and appreciate. It will be very difficult for you or anyone else to continually offend Srila Prabhupada by your words, and make any advancement on any spiritual path. One of the symptoms of the Brahminical stage is gentleness. Unless one comes to the Brahminical stage advancement will be very difficult.

Lord Krishna teaches in Bhagavad-gita that to make spiritual advancement in life, one should find a qualified guru, serve him (or her), and inquire from him submissively. If Srila Prabhupada is not the one for you, why torture yourself – move on. At the same time, understand that there is the possibility that many people do find light and guidance in the words of Srila Prabhupada, and try to appreciate them as well, by not disturbing their minds with your anger and resentment.

You will have to see for yourself what works. See if your remaining continually angry and offensive towards Srila Prabhupada helps your spiritual path. See if you become happy living that way, and feel more at peace?

Find someone that you feel is a qualified spiritual authority, who is worth listening to in your eyes. You probably never met Srila Prabhupada personally, so may be difficult for you to understand why anyone could appreciate him. You probably feel that I am insane too be attracted to Srila Prabhupada, as he repulses you so.

I have found light, spiritual happiness and joy through the Krishna Consciousness Movement. I feel that Srila Prabhupada is the one for me, with his controversial statements and all. I have tried other teachers and other methods, but this is the path I chose, and it is the one for me. But it might not be the one for you, and that’s ok.

For me, I met Srila Prabhupada personally several times. I have studied his works and words for more than 39 years now. I have been an initiated disciple since 1970. When I have questions, he answers me through his books. I have tried it many times. I often use Srila Prabhupada’s books as an oracle. I will ask a question, and then open the book randomly and get the answer I need. Sometimes I will be reading along, have a question, and it will be answered in the next sentence, or paragraph.

I don’t often go to the temple personally, or even home programs. I like to practice alone at home.

I had an interesting experience though happen to me personally in my exchange as a disciple with Srila Prabhupada. I attended a home program at a devotee’s house, which is something I don’t often do. Jayadvaita Swami was speaking. Something he said upset me. I really objected to what he was saying, and in my mind I had a challenging question for him, but I didn’t want to bother him, or upset the devotees and guests. When I got home, from the program, for some reason I turned on a DVD recorded lecture of Srila Prabhupada from the early 1970’s. In the lecture suddenly Srila Prabhupada stopped speaking, opened his, looked up and directly into the camera (into my eyes), and answered my question from Jayadvaita’s lecture earlier that evening, some 25 years later. To me that is pretty cool.

I did state that I am probably a Sudra, so I am not offended by the statement that I am of lower birth. Srila Prabhupada stated that no one living in the material world is an honored guest. We are all prisoners here. Srila Prabhupada did use flatery sometimes, to get his message across, but at other times he called a spade, a spade.

Perhaps get as far away from ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada as you can, so you can heal and move on in your life. It will take time to forget it all, so be patient with yourself. There are some questions that just don’t have answers right now. Agonizing over those unanswerable questions will just tend to torture your mind. I know – I suffer from extreme,and incurable OCD. I repeat the same kind of questions that you have over-and-over 10,000 times a day, without any relief. Srila Prabhupada stated the problem with Americans is they want “instant everything”. Your questions may eventually be answered in time – but no guarantees.

I am light years away from not being able to “stand” Srila Prabhupada. I am questioning, that is all.

Brevity is next to godliness. :)

Eric,

Anonymous here again. I am feeling unhappy that people started branding you as anti-Prabhupada without really understanding what you are trying to ask through valid questioning.

I feel that now you should have some quick chat with Krishna Himself (through Supersoul obviously). He is Bhakta-vatsala, so He will guide you one way or another.

Hare Krishna :)

I am in the same boat as you about not knowing my place. I am 57 years old now and still haven’t found my place in life, even after searching and questioning for many years. My best advise though is be honest with yourself. Figure out where you stand on things, where your loyalties lie, who your real friends are, and don’t burn all your bridges.

That is easy for me to say, I guess. I change my mind almost daily. Like I said, I don’t know my place, even after searching a really long time. I am not a self-realized soul, and until I become one I will never really be able to see things as they are properly, in relationship to understanding who I was in lives past, who I am now, and where I am going in the future. Those are the kinds of questions that are most important to find the answers to.

I sense you like to write with ISKCON devotees and at least somewhat enjoy or appreciate their association. At the same time there is frustration and dissatisfaction in your writings about how your spiritual life is progressing, at least in other places.

For me it is all about keeping association. If I burn all my bridges, I run out of places to write, and I am blocked from communicating. I have to write every day to keep my sanity. At the same time I have to control myself as much as possible and not burn all my bridges, by always just speaking my mind, without any diplomacy. That is kind of a description of my place.

I like the Ferengi quote, from the “Ferengi Rules of Aquisition” – “always keep your lies consistent.”

I know it is difficult to appreciate the many Indians that are in ISKCON temples now. They may seem very foreign to you. I guarantee though that if you get to know some of them they are just normal people like you with many similar interests. They have their time to be devotees and they have their time to be normal people too.

My wife and I befriended many Indian devotees at the local temple. They want to be accepted as “Americans”, and do everything you like to do, like riding down the road, while at the same time they enjoy being devotees too.

I don’t go to the temple that often, even though it is less than 10 miles from my home, because honestly it is very embarrassing to see newer devotees (the Indians and others), doing everything I am supposed to be doing as a disciple, but I don’t do anymore. I feel embarressed and ashamed everytime I go.

I also have to be honest too. I hate being pressured to give money every time I go, so that is another reason I stay away. Remember though “bring you own thali!”

In the ISKCON temple I go to, many of the devotees from the Indian community chant 16 rounds each day, follow the four regulative principles, engage in regular Deity worship, such as stringing all the garlands, contribute piles of Laxmi to support the temple functions, and temple construction, serve the devotees, personally serve out the Sunday feast to guests and devotees alike, and pay for the feast.

I have to say frankly that they appear in many ways to do better service, at least presently, than many of Srila Prabhupada’s original disciples. It is embarrassing for me to go to the temple these days. I feel ashamed in the presence of these devotees, especially when they try to offer me respect as a Srila Prabhupada disciple.

I thought, when I formally moved out of the temple in 1986, that within a year ISKCON would be gone for good. What happened instead I think is Krishna replaced me with new and better devotees, who were only too glad to take my place.

I think somebody sang “life goes on with you or without you”, but I probably misquoted the song.

One of the problems with accepting everyone indiscrimately is you get some types of people you don’t necessarily want to be in your organization, like child molestors.

Maybe for future reorganization of your spiritual society, you will have to be selective about who you let join to protect yourself and your kids, as an example.