It sounds like we are pretty much in agreement.

To clarify a little: I wasn’t meaning to say you were directly quoting out of context. I was pointing out that you might be dancing close to the edge.

The two quotes don’t contradict themselves when they are understood within the context they were spoken. Pulled out of context and used to bolster someone else’s point it they can appear to contradict.

I’m glad to hear you looked up the rest of the conversation and enjoyed reading it. As a former resident of New Vrindaban, and having spent a lot of time with both Hayagriva and Kirtanananda, I also appreciated reading the transcript of that conversation.

And, finally, I agree that Prabhupada was definitely having some fun with the English language in the quote you used.

:)

Chaits

Thanks for the really kind words, that’s pretty cool of you. As for using Prabhupada to prove a point, I’m not sure that I did that. The quotes were both sort of funny. “Demon-crazy” and “asses”. It’s more anecdotal. I probably didn’t convey that very well.

As for the Prabhupada conversation that you posted, I don’t think that it contradicts the “demon-crazy” thing.

Prabhupada seems to be referring to a small democratic committee, not the “democracy” of the American government.

Incidentally, the conversation, which I found on Vedabase, is pretty amazing. Prabhupada seems to be in a good, jovial mood throughout it. Even though it’s laying the groundwork for how things should be managed in ISKCON, Prabhupada was rather chipper and allowed the devotees to suss it out for themselves.

He also goes on to explain that even great kings like Maharaja Pariksit were not autocrats. He also explains that he doesn’t want New Vrndavana to become a Hindu temple. Very interesting. :)

But anyway, when quoting Srila Prabhupada (or reading quotes of Srila Prabhupada) it’s important to *not* take them out of context. I try very hard to not do that. I’m sure that I make mistakes and I’m positive that I misunderstand and thus misrepresent Srila Prabhupada. I try my best not to, but it’s bound to happen.

Thanks for posting the snippet from the conversation. I’ve never read it before and I’m really glad to have gotten a chance to read the whole thing.

I hope all is well with you. I am in general agreement that trying to make one government party or another “KC” is silly an unnecssary. They are what they are and we don’t have to make them into something more i.e., “spiritualize” them so we can feel justified in interacting with, or supporting, them.

I want to leave a comment about using Prabhupada quotes to help prove a point. I think your point was well presented and did not require a quote from Prabhupada to legitimize it. I know this is well established in the ISKCON code of ethics but my impression is that you are a person who often see through/beyond some of the institutionalized cultural norms.

Srila Prabhupada said so many things about so many topics and depending on the specific situation those instructions often seem to contradict each other. For example, below is an excerpt of a recorded conversation with Prabhupada, Hayagriva and Kirtanananda at New Vrindaban on June 9, 1969. If you compare the quote you listed above with the one listed below – out of the context of which they were presented – they appear to contradict one another.

Anyhow, I really enjoy reading what you write, especially youre latest efforts with The Hing. My point was to express some of concerns on using “Prabhupada saids” with you, someone who I think would understand and appreciate my point.

Seeking the Essence,

Chaitanya Mangala dasa

——————————————–

Prabhupada: Well, if… This deposition is very difficult to solve. (laughing) You want it to stay, and he wants to burn it. (laughing)

Hayagriva: Yes. I mean it will come down to something very basic like this, something very simple. Now you said that according to you it should be burned. According to you… If the president is in charge, then if he says to cut it down, it gets cut down.

Prabhupada: No. The committee. The majority decision will be…

Hayagriva: That’s democracy. That’s democracy. That’s no good.

Prabhupada: Democracy? This is the age of…

Hayagriva: I thought you said we should have enlightened monarchy.

Prabhupada: No. Monarchy is out of date now. When you form a committee… But what can I say? If you disagree in that way, then… If you have to live together, you have to work together; if you disagree in that way, it will be a difficult job.